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Be careful what you ask for...

  • Sep. 6th, 2006 at 2:35 PM

First of all...


To expound: My brother has recently moved to Raleigh, so I'm up here visiting before I leave for BALTIMORE COMICON this weekend. While he's at work I decided to get out of the house and explore the little swank retail/entertainment mall that adjoins his apartments. In search of a place to work and people watch... I stumbled into Starbucks, assuming they'd have free wireless. Sign on the door said "T-Mobile Wireless", so I stumbled in... ordered a fucking 2 dollar cup of black coffee and fired up my laptop. Low and behold the man had screwed me yet again as that to use the internet in Starbucks you now have to have a paid T-Mobile account, a purchasing option for which is convienently prompted upon opening your browser.

Now I don't have as much hate for Starfucks as a lot of people. As a corporate entity goes they're at least somewhat socially responsible I suppose. But it just seems retarded to not offer free wireless when other places are. So you lose Starbucks, if there is another option I'm always going to take it from now on. Whether it be a mom and pops joint or not.

So now I'm sitting in a Panera bread working (I detected the signal sitting in Starbucks:)). Which is awesome because it has free Green Tea refills for a dollar twenty fiver, which are not only easier on my wallet than Starbucks coffee but healthier ta boot. So the lesson learned here is... when in a swank retail district and forced to choose a corporate chain to work from... go with Panera.

Anywhoo. I've been talking about posting this Alex Toth/Steve Rude letter for a while. Inking/writing dynamo Ande Parks gave me a copy of this when I was in KC and he, Tony Moore, Seth Peck, Jason Aaron and I spent an evening drinking whiskey discussing and laughing at some of the comments in it.

My thoughts: Rude while not someone who always blows me away is a big talent and worthy of respect. However, Toth is on the money here for the most part. He nit-picks a tad, but overall his points are beyond valid. Sure he's kind of a dick about it, but Rude did set himself up for and the results are pure comedy gold. I was going to highlight some of my favorite bits, but that would sort of be disrespectful to Rude, who by all accounts has been cool about this letter and doesn't need a no count like me piling on. So here it is enjoy it and learn from it:

Click thumbs to enlarge:




I promise to post some new art soon. Been travellin' a long and winding road...

-J La

Comments

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[info]man_size wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 07:03 pm (UTC)
Where did you find this Toth vs Rude gold?
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[info]jasonlatour wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 07:29 pm (UTC)
Ande Parks gave it to me. I have no clue where he got it. I don't think it's on the Tothfan site.

Awesome, ain't it?
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[info]man_size wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 07:55 pm (UTC)
It's terrifying. However, Toth let the perfect get in the way of the good. He was a genius storyteller/craftsman who, curiously, worked on largely lousy comix. For shame. Plus, I doubt any reader scrutinizes the over all page in their rapid reading experience of any given comic as much as Toth did. Still, so much to learn from Toth.
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[info]jasonlatour wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 08:35 pm (UTC)
I agree...Toth could be quite out of bounds in terms of scrutiny... and his body of work is suspect in terms of content. While it is true that most readers don't scrutinize like that... I think in the end a thought out comic stands up much longer and at the very least subconciously effects the experience. Plus, like Will Eisner says... if you don't treat a medium with respect as art and craft who will? I think a lot of comics readers are screaming for legitimacy and they think it's in capes talking to each other about politics when in reality, I think it's got more to do with treating any genre or story with the craft that a painting or film would. Yeah some stuff you let slide here and there if it's got heart... but that's a different discussion. In terms of giving subjects the care they deserve, I think Toth was on the money.

I just believe that well crafted comics, are in theory, funner and easier to read, and beyond that offer a lot more upon re-reading. Wouldn't you agree?

-J La
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[info]chrispiers wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 07:10 pm (UTC)
I'd love to read that but it'd just kill my eyes to read so much small hand-written text on a computer screen.
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[info]jasonlatour wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 07:28 pm (UTC)
Yeah, plus Toth writing is like some ancient scrawl. A written language of it's own, with it's own letters and rules. To the uninitiated it's a PAIN at times.

Maybe I will translate, or pull out the quotes sometime.

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[info]tormentedartist wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 08:08 pm (UTC)
Toth was a jackass
They had the first page of the critique in the Steve Rude issue of Draw ! And honestly it made my think that Toth is/was an asshole. But reading the whole thing I think he does make some good points on storytelling with the 180 degree rule and making the main character more important on the page. But he still was an asshole...or at best a very sick man.

I mean if doing critiques upset him so much then why do it ? I mean yeah I've gotten a lot of cheap laughs out of the stuff he has written over the years, but what about all of the people he alienated and hurt ?

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[info]jasonlatour wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 08:29 pm (UTC)
Re: Toth was a jackass
While I don't agree with his tact.... lets remember something here... Toth took the time out to do this, a very comprehensive critique intended as a teaching tool. He could have just said, "you suck, quit" and left it at that. I think in that context, it was a very generous thing to do.

As for that 180 "rule" don't get me started on breaking that apart...

-J La




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(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2006 03:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Toth was a jackass
Some incredible information to be found in this crit! Thanks a million for posting it.

Any chance of getting larger scans of these? I'd love to be able to read the original balloon text in Rude's pages and see some of the details that aren't visible in the low res scans.

— Kody Chamberlain
www.kodychamberlain.com
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 11th, 2006 03:06 am (UTC)
Re: Toth was a jackass
what toth did was pretty incredible. it's obvious rude could draw but his story telling was all over the place. while some may harp about the 180 rule (or axis, which works better in moving pictures than comics) staging IS important. r-l, l-r. coming and going. basic. i'm gonna re-read these for years. thanks!
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[info]dryponder wrote:
Sep. 6th, 2006 10:59 pm (UTC)
that was incredible! wow.
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[info]e22 wrote:
Sep. 7th, 2006 03:18 pm (UTC)
Finally got around to finishing the whole thing. Totally great. The harshness comes across as someone that cares moreso than someone trying to be hurtful, IMO. The best kind of crit. Inspiring! Time to go look at my Toth books. =D
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 15th, 2006 02:38 pm (UTC)
"Rude" But Right-On!
Anyone who's ever received a scathing postcard/letter from Alex recognizes the crit style here (and yes, the man did disdain doing them, but once he got started he gave it his all.)

Steve Rude is a good page-filler who from what I understand gets his books out on time. He's also probably a non-entity as far as comics ARTISTS go, as are 99.9999999% of those ever to work in the medium. But Toth wasn't among that number, and it always angered him that he had so little company.

There were other cartoonists who did certain things as well or better than Alex, but nobody who cared more about the art & craft. "Kudos, kiddo," as he would say, for posting AT's always enlightening words.
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[info]lois2037 wrote:
Sep. 18th, 2006 12:52 am (UTC)
YOW!! This got forwarded to me, and I can't resist commenting. This is PURE GOLD, on so many levels. I wonder if Steve knew what he was setting himself up for? This is going around the net among comic pros under the title "When Toth Attacks." Thanks for posting this!
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(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 19th, 2006 03:48 am (UTC)
Kudos to Steve Rude for having the guts to let this out of his studio. It's such an education.

From what I've read and heard, Toth wasn't one to do things by half measures, creatively or critically. And he was his own harshest critic.
It's like bad storytelling was an insult to his aesthetic; he experienced it viscerally.

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